List of Projects Autograders Client Meetings Teleconference-2016-05-06


Updated about 4 years ago by Sam Joseph
Outstanding Action Items

* (Sam) address concerns from Janet/Rose about lack of consistency on part of autograders - clarity about which are the correct solutions and having access to them
* (sam) convert hw4 walkthrough draft to markdown format
* (all) collaborate of hw4 walkthrough
* (all) install slack desktop:
* (rose) to post "pair-proofing" new chapters --> to strawberry canyon repo
* (all) contribute to Janet's survey
* add some contact information to the survey
* (sam) share survey with Armando DONE
* (sam) pull out pairing module from AV102

Agenda Items:

* book update (dave's bio update)
* meeting time (an hour later) --> keep stable --> earlier?
* (richard) grader failure (edx) two types of issues

* (janet) issues with resetting student results.  only question by question --> students want exam reset --> would like global settings for exam resetting - intentional to have reseting on the individual question.

* (armando) reactions on project versions of the course - how can we stay on top of that? what would people like help with - want to solve keeping track of multiple projects and not reliant on TAs

* (armando) to what extent do your students get RSpec?  that often seems problematic --> would like to know which concepts are the ones that most students

* project course: ability to submit audition tape for pairing to take part 3 --> pair a certain number of hours in agile ventures; special eligibilty for SPOC students; SPOC students for project managers (janet has some students)


Masked Contributor: edX inherits the a mentality "if it's good enough for ..." - although edX more responsive to instructors - also edX are now trying to focus on credit pathway courses - we will likely see the evolution of features relating to proctored solutions, timed exams.  Want the assessments have teeth.

Armando - sometimes export the entire course - there are dire warnings about losing student data - but that should only be if you're changing the ids of the main solution --> want to be able to copy modules between SPOCs

Janet - could write a script to change things

Richard - conceptually annotated walk through of the homework assignment

Armando - hard to get the BDD/TDD cycle off the ground

Sam - Acceptance/Unit test cycle

Armando - BDD - Behaviour Driven Design; TDD - Test Driven Development --> Cucumber good for emphasizing non technical terms - all students love cucumber from surveys and teams feedback

Sam - BDD as black box

Armando - careful with black box and glass box - clever students can get carried away

Projects & RSpec discussion

* Rose - cucumber gets in, but RSpec seems trickier - students trying to figure out how when they contact other services, how should they do that in cucumber - I say in the first instance demonstrate that it works, but don't spend a ridiculous amount of time on that.  On RSpec if the spec does non-default rails behaviour then they should have some specs for it.   Week by week we have a quick evaluation, and I'm not so rigorous about the grading (although I let them think that I am) - I have two part time TAs who don't really know the domain, but they help me with grading ... so I do all the project evaluation by myself - I expect students to have one feature a week with a test first approach, and show me the tests and the feature is merged and in production, and usually the first cycle, no one is ready - but they get ready most of the time for the second.   I learned to make the cycles one week rather than two weeks, in order to at least get the first feature in the first two weeks.  They may get behind, but I have a checklist of things that they must have for a team, and then requirements for each person as well.

* Armando - we also worry about the length of cycles - we still get people waiting till the evening before.  Sometimes ownership from the TAs is an issue - trying to find a way to ensure that projects run smoothly independently of level of supervision

* Rose - can't get hold of customer frequently enough to support single week cycles - I have my students treat me as a customer

* Sam - charity groups not available weekly?

* Armando - depends on the customer - some student groups were doing continuous integration and had regular email interaction with clients every two days.  Students often surprised that email on Thursday to client will not lead to meeting on Friday. Successful students say trust the process

* Janet - got to roughly two-week iterations once we had got set up with initial meetings - then added a demo - tried this time going with fewer deadlines - now teams had to deliver who did what and it seemed like all the female students were asked to do the RSpecs, so I adjusted the metric so the people writing the code had to write the tests

* Armando - students often don't follow the process - would that we had some magical way of checking that the students were following the process that would be the key ... want to get project telemetry to that effect

* Janet - often students don't seem to do test first - is there some way to adjust HW4 to make it incorrectly - some students used gems that auto-generated code and were asking, we don't have to test that do we?  and I said I'm not grading you on number of features, but that you are test driving

* Rose - I ask my students to show pivotal tracker items, and then show me the tests and the code, and if they don't have the tests you are going to get zero.  There is no dividing people up to work separately on tests or whatever, but I have a single person on a feature.  The second you give them any wiggle room they lapse

* Armando - we keep see people splitting up by he's the front end guy, he's the database person, he's the tester

* Rose - yeah - if the people can't explain what they've done we can see they are skipping it

* Armando - very hard for us with the numbers of students and projects

* Rose - right - I have two two hour blocks and I use that going from student to student looking at their progress - other students have to be pairing with each other.  Each week I say you are being graded on the process, not the number of features.

* Richard - I'm teaching my course to lower level students in terms of undergrad career and overall ability - i have not managed to get projects into the same course with the materials.  In the separate project course I teach the first course is not the feeder course, so I can't really structure process.  What's really hard is with short attention span of students and overall time constraints - it's difficult to get something just working quickly and not care about maintainability (which students don't care about)

* Armando - we have more and more projects that stay as repeats and would love to have a way to retroactively mark down students who's code was not as maintainable - we also survey students when you are out in industry

* Rose - students often grumbling about legacy code homeworks - what's the point?

* Janet - my university now surveys all students who ever took your class

* Armando - code climate GPA is now part of your weekly grade - shows us ProjectScope, which shows CodeClimate GPA, test coverage, pull request activity (looking at whether people are reviewing each others (through comments) ), pivotal items, slack communication activity --> idea is to get overall metric to then color code student projects to highlight which are the problem projects

* Richard --> rspec is troubling - but time constraint

* Rose - would like more examples of good and bad RSpec usage

* Janet - students couldn't see benefit from RSpecs

* Rose - access to videos from people from business:

Action Items

* (sam) updating email address for Janet
* (Armando) dave patterson video
* (sam) plan for a flipped betasaasers meeting
* (armando) push kindle version out
* (sam) coordinate with richard about time for meeting
* (sam) improve the HW4 grader
* (sam) rename BDD/TDD?
* (sam) deeper look at janets's quiz reset issue
* (rose) share check off lists for checking team progress
* (sam/armando) projectscope into AV? for 169.3


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